Sanita and Indulis are interviewed by their fellow graduates* (please see explanation) Māris Liopa and Pauls Rēvelis.

Driving from Ķemeri to Lapmežciems, through the forest past Kaņieris, we first arrive in Antiņciems. It was a beautiful spring three years ago when we were invited to visit. Various events and obstacles got in the way, but the invitation was not forgotten, and the time when the cowslips were in bloom was the right moment to respond to the invitation and keep the promise. Furthermore, this is not just a meeting of fellow graduates, but a conversation about ideas, their implementation and cooperation. If you know what you want, and you are in the right place, you will be helped by the meadow, the beaver, and...

It was – I must say – quite some time ago – even before C19, when we accidentally met in the foyer of the “Latvijas valsts meži” office building, and you both invited us to visit – saying – you need to get settled, start doing things, and then come!

Sanita: We are now in our fourth year at Antiņciems.

You worked at “Rīgas Meži”, Indulis continues his work at “Latvijas valsts meži”. Who came up with the idea that you needed to live in a quiet, peaceful village surrounded by forest, right next to Kaņieris?

Sanita: First of all, we had the idea of changing where we lived. Firstly, at that time in Babīte municipality, we were living in a rented property, not our own. We had sent our daughters out into the world and realised that we wanted something of our own. On top of that, Riga was rapidly “approaching” our then-home in Dzilnuciems – there was no more peace and quiet, meadows were being built up... We looked for a new place for about a year – we were ready to move to Latgale or Sēlija, or even Inčukalns. The search took time.

Indulis: In Sēlija, in Subate, there was a fantastic place – an old forestry building on the shore of a lake, but... we were asked for impossible terms – 60 thousand euros in cash.

A strange demand in these times...

Sanita: Also importantly – the building in Subate was beautiful but huge, like a manor house, with 16 small rooms. The owner had already been involved in tourism to some extent. This option didn't work out, but then “Vidnieki” was found; we really liked the house, which could not be purchased without the land attached to it.

Indulis: This time, Latvian legislation “worked” in favour of the local person. We were second in line to buy the house. The first were foreigners, I believe from Asia, but, as Sanita mentioned, agricultural land is attached to the house, and a foreigner as a private individual could not buy it. Since no one wanted to set up an SIA (limited liability company) for land management, the foreigners gave up and it was our turn. I will add, setting up an SIA for less than 8 ha... What’s the point? By the way, this fact – the agricultural land attached to the property – was only revealed to the “first-time buyers” at the notary, where the transaction had already reached. We were lucky!

Do you know the history of “Vidnieki”?

Sanita: We know everything! We have researched it and dug back to the 19th century.

Indulis: In 2020, the foundations of the house turned 100 years old. There is evidence that chicory was grown and dried in the surrounding area in the past. A man named Dumpis lived in Čaukciems (a neighbouring village), and our house in Antiņciems also belonged to a Dumpis – they were relatives. The Čaukciems Dumpis grew chicory because the Antiņciems Dumpis did not have such good soil.

Sanita: We met the granddaughter of the Dumpis who lived in our house. In the centre of the village is a small cemetery where all the former owners of the surrounding houses rest. The granddaughter tends to her grandfather's grave, and that is how we met. See, she remembered that the meadows had already been overgrown in her childhood, effectively a quagmire. When I took her around our paths, it was a big surprise. She only knew that her grandfather had grazed cows somewhere in an open space...

Is the name “Vidnieki” given because the houses are located in the middle of the village?

Indulis: We don't know that for sure yet. As we were told, after both wars, the houses in the village were always rebuilt because they had been completely burned down. Our house was once a log building; now you can see a different structure. It was rebuilt after the war, which can be understood both from the house's layout and by reading documents.

You aren't too far from Babīte after all...

Indulis: That was good luck! About 50 km from our old home, and importantly, we didn't have to change jobs either, even though we were ready to do so. We didn't need to.

Sanita: When we started living here, only then did we realise how much added value is in our property and to the property. Ķemeri station is 4 km away – if our daughters want to visit us some evening – let them jump on a train and come! The sea is 5 km away – we jokingly call ourselves the 5th line to the sea. Kaņieris is very close.

In the first year, walking through the meadows, I looked – so many cowslips, so many other medicinal plants, I realised – these must be put to use.

When you took us along the path, we saw – there are flowering meadows and there are meadows that should be cleared of overgrowth.

Indulis: Out of 5.6 ha, the Rural Support Service has recognised 1.2 ha as meadows, and that is what it is. We are slowly clearing and maintaining them.

Sanita: The first year was spent understanding what can be found in which place – where the sun rises, where it sets, where the land is, where the forest is. When you live on-site, you understand everything much better.

Added value... You both add value and get value back.

Indulis: Looking at the area's boundary plan, I realised that this place has potential. There is a crossroads here, the property has access to the road from three points, you aren't squeezed between neighbours.

Sanita: This is also a place popular with tourists. The first summer we were sitting by the house – groups were passing by – speaking German, Japanese, Hindi, English... Not far from us are the tourism objects of the Ķemeri National Park (hereinafter ĶNP or the park), and the great Mežtaka trail is right here. On Saturdays and Sundays, it is often as busy here as on Brīvības Street in Riga.

Indulis: The restrictions set in the park also benefit us; for example, you cannot light campfires in the forest, but you can on your own property; we have all the permits. The park administration is happy that the land plots are falling into the hands of people like us, who manage them. For some, this situation is a defect, for us – an effect!

Sanita: People come from Ķemeri, rest on the way, light a campfire, grill a sausage, boil some soup, and can head back to Ķemeri station.

How does communication with people happen? I doubt you rely on the principle of chance – walking by, seeing it, and coming in.

Sanita: We are included in the ĶNP plan as a tourist and camping site, we participated in the “Home Cafe Days” organised by the “Lauku ceļotājs” (Rural Traveller), information about us is at the Tukums Tourism Centre, on Facebook, and also in the municipality. I will add that our parish, Lapmežciems, is forming so-called smart villages – Lapmežciems, Antiņciems, and Čaukciems. The latter (with the most colourful name) is very deep in the forest. Currently, the “word of mouth” method works well; friends tell their friends about us, acquaintances tell their acquaintances, guests who have stayed tell their own, and so on.

Indulis: There is also the option of putting up an information poster at the property, but for now, we don't want to. We want to control the flow of people, to be the guides ourselves – to tell and show.

Sanita: A visit to us usually takes 2-3 hours. Last year we gained good experience from the Forest Consulting Centre, from the Latgale Rural Consulting Centre, and soon “Jauni rakursi” (a tourism agency) will be coming to us. The offer includes a 3-hour programme: a tour, food, and my products.

Indulis: “Jauni rakursi” are coming to “Vidnieki” because we fit into their theme. Sanita already mentioned it – someone told someone about us.

“Home Cafe Days” last year. While walking along the path, you mentioned 250 people who participated in them...

Sanita: The event is organised by “Lauku ceļotājs”, it happens once a year, and last year we applied ourselves.

Indulis: There are enough people who decide once a year to open the gates of their yards or doors of their homes and organise something like this. You don't have to register income for one day a year; the State Revenue Service (VID) does not monitor us during “Home Cafe Days”. The idea for such an event comes from the Scandinavians; the Estonians tried it before us.

Sanita: This year, a similar event will be held in the municipalities. Of course, what is very important, I cannot buy cookies at some store and decide to “resell” them at a higher price – everything must be produced and prepared right here, at “Vidnieki”. “Lauku ceļotājs” also organises training in this regard; there was a seminar recently with the Food and Veterinary Service (PVD), they explained what the risks could be, what is needed, what is better to avoid, which products are better not to use, etc.

Indulis: That is all just advice; for example, in summer, in hot weather, it is better not to use eggs and dairy products.

Sanita: I have registered as a home producer with the PVD; I thought about it for a long time, I was even afraid – my old experience was playing a part, but the service's style of work has changed a lot, the attitude is professional.

Indulis: It should be emphasised that the attitude of the Tukums municipality PVD is very understanding and helpful.

What can you treat 250 people to?

Sanita: “Home Cafe Days” take place in the autumn, but the menu must be submitted in the summer, and prices must also be specified. This year it will be on 17-18 September, in Kandava a little earlier, and on the coast accordingly a little later.

On 4 June, the “Open Days in the Countryside” campaign is expected, which is effectively a similar event, where we will promote our place more; my daughter Lauma will lead Latvian folk dances and singing.

“Rīgas Meži” and working at that company are therefore in the past.

Sanita: Exactly a year ago was my last working day at “Rīgas Meži” (RM). I will add that for a whole year before I stopped working at RM, people often asked me if they could come to “Vidnieki”, could they walk around, could they talk about herbal teas, etc. You can't! At “Rīgas Meži” I was a forest warden, so that also meant fire safety, shifts... Plant matters and the products I make are and become very labour-intensive, and – if work starts to interfere with a hobby...

Then you have to choose... Why wait another year?

Sanita: I worked at “Rīgas Meži” for 10 years. The team was good. I wrote my resignation, and I was working my last month when I was already getting calls from television, interested in “Vidnieki”. For a while, I was unemployed – I took business and English courses – it was a good transition time, it became clear what I would do, and we could invest funds into development. The courses were very useful; since we had already posted information on Facebook, the instructor opened the page, looked, analysed, and advised.

The first year not in the position of a forest warden brought different spring feelings – I drive my car, I see – dry grass – and... I don't worry that something might catch fire somewhere. We have already mentioned that both our daughters help us a lot with the work. We throw ourselves into everything possible and where it seems interesting.

Herbalism and training. Did that come as an addition to the knowledge gained at the Faculty of Forestry and at work?

Sanita: I have a certificate from a school of herbalism; I studied for a year. As far as I know, they are preparing to include herbalists in the catalogue of professions – there are bathhouse attendants, there are ceramists – a herbalist will also be a craftsman.

In Latvian, simply “zāļu sieviņa” (herb woman) would sound...

Sanita: Yes, but I don't like that term; you see, in the old days, this craft was taken over from mothers, from grandmothers – it was passed down from generation to generation. I have not received knowledge this way. Of course, one can think differently, but there is a series of books about plants whose authors are professional scientists. So! I work as a laboratory technician: I take the recipe and execute it. In addition, as you asked, using all the knowledge gained at the university – the Faculty of Forestry. When registering my work with the PVD, when the employee saw my educational document, everything went briefly and quickly: it is valid because I have studied accordingly. I like the word herbalist (not herb woman) because I have gained knowledge by studying.

At what moment did the interest in herbalism arise?

Sanita: While working at “Rīgas Meži”, in the evenings and on weekends, I learned the skills of aromatherapy. At “Vidnieki”, as I already mentioned, “the meadows reached out to us”. With a ĶNP inspector, we surveyed the areas, looked at what grows on our property, and I rejoiced at the cowslips and everything else. It happened that I grabbed plant identifiers, looked, read, called a friend who had already finished the herbalism courses. Eventually, I realised – I have to study myself. In my production, I use or “put together” aromatherapy materials (as preservatives), of course, knowledge, and beeswax.

There is enough area for your work.

Sanita: For now, there is only a hectare; there will definitely be more. Last year, around Jāņi (Midsummer), a company of ladies came to me – they would rest, enjoy, and... weave wreaths. I didn't allow it! Excuse me, one hectare with plants is my work, my raw materials, and seed material for the future. The ladies arrived with their own daisies. Speaking of seeds, Indulis researched this issue more, but we can collect and share plant seeds.

Indulis: In this regard, there are certain business opportunities, but they require a larger area. Our hectare is ours! The story of what can be obtained from the meadows is quite extensive. I think that the exchange of knowledge and experience is very important, because you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time! If a person has experience and knowledge, why hide them? ĶNP biologists introduced us to the experience stories of our Estonian neighbours – there is a lot of handiwork, maybe somewhere someone is starting to mechanise it little by little.

Sanita: We have been visited by several botanists – Inga Straupe, Agnese Priede, who study seeds and sowing in meadows; in turn, we were helping here in the Dunduri meadows – we experimentally sowed wild plants.

Indulis: I think this could be a good type of activity – for example – a wealthy person has land, there isn't much time to deal with it, but this person knows that a perfectly mowed lawn doesn't interest them. If you can offer them seeds and also help cultivate them, that is a niche towards which, it seems, we are heading. I had applied for this idea to a business incubator, where they didn't understand me for now. Where are the export opportunities? Nowhere, we cannot export seeds from Latvia. What will be innovative? The process. That didn't fit. I think – for now.

Is everything we saw that grows in your meadows still local, haven't you sown anything yourselves?

Sanita: I want to keep the idea and plan – I take and derive raw materials from what grows here. I sowed a few things that are needed in the garden – chamomile, marigolds, there are a few experimental beds for collections.

Many people ask me for fireweed tea; there isn't any, because it doesn't grow here. Moreover, it is an invasive species, which we probably don't need. Let other ladies deal with that.

How do you get along with the beaver? You said that the land borders on a beaver colony, and we also saw a large beaver lodge.

Indulis: In the regulations of Ķemeri National Park, trapping beavers in places of damage is allowed. Since I am a hunter, I do it and also help the neighbours. A parish road leads through the village, for which I have taken charge, so that the beaver, while active, does not destroy it. Since last autumn, I have caught 16 beavers in traps. A lot, and it looks like their numbers will not decrease, because in the places where I trapped and caught (seemingly eradicated) them before, the animals have returned. I must say, setting traps is like another job – if you have set them, they must be checked regularly.

Sanita: It's good that the round for checking the traps is right here – by the house. An evening walk is combined with hunting.

Indulis: Colleagues often envy me for that, because others have to drive and search, while I have everything by my home. Over time, I will have to look for a dog.

Chicory, the former owner Dumpis, and the ruins of the old dryer are yet another interesting story and plan.

Sanita: Yes, indeed, we are planning to popularise chicory coffee as an ancient beverage! I tried sowing and growing chicory myself – a lot of work, I will grow them for medicine and mixtures. We will treat tourists to chicory coffee and talk about the traditions of growing them and making the coffee. On 18 June, we will organise an event for the preservation of cultural heritage and traditions – in the Tukums municipality, there was once quite a strong tradition of chicory growing; we researched periodicals, read in articles about the 1880s, when chicory was already being grown here, dried, and taken to Ķemeri, where it was further supplied by rail to V. Ķuze’s confectionery factories. I read that they were also grown in the Soviet years.

Indulis: Growing them will only be for our own needs, because a chicory business won't work out on this land – it grows like a carrot, with roots of different shapes and deep enough. Either special equipment must be sought, or very good selection seeds. Ready-made chicory coffee can be bought for a good price; it is produced by Tukuma kafija. We have enough in just maintaining the idea – we can support local producers or the Ukrainians, who also grow chicory and which is currently topical. A ready product costs about 4-5 euros per kilogram; we cannot achieve such a cost price.

Sanita: This is the first step.

Indulis: Exactly – I watched, read, researched what would be considered cultural heritage. Look, in Latgale, a manure harvesting bee (talka) is registered as cultural heritage, the Suiti have registered their traditions! I have an idea to register chicory coffee and its creation from field to cup. Perhaps the old dryer could be restored, but that is in the further future. A cultural heritage plan is more advantageous for us because there are no business obligations, only the project needs to be implemented.

Sanita: We have also been engaged in hay-making bees for two years now, which is also a specific heritage of traditions. Last year, during “Home Cafe Days”, we informed people about the hay-making bees. There are many projects; we are constantly looking at them – where and how we could start and participate.

It is understood that currently there is one meadow that has been spotted for the bee.

Sanita: Exactly! By the house, there is a meadow that we call the tradition meadow. In the first year, we invited relatives to the bee. We told everyone to be in white clothes, we gave food by the hay-stack – we laid out tablecloths, and we treated them as my aunt used to do in my childhood. This year the bee will be even bigger.

From my childhood, I remember quite a lot of work: mowing, drying, turning, putting into stacks, taking home, trampling down, etc.

Indulis: That is how it happens with us too – we will dry and collect it ourselves. We mow on the day of the bee.

Sanita: On our bee day, it rained... for two days... I went out in the rain to turn the mown grass.

When the hay has dried, been put into a stack, and later ends up in bags, the children don't need anything more... We use the hay ourselves; last year, a local chicken farmer got some of it.

Indulis: The use of hay is our own problem. Talking about environmental projects, I will touch on a painful topic. What do these projects support? Environmental NGOs and the like. It is impossible for an owner in whose territory or property projects are implemented to participate in the projects. It's strange. If I want to participate in environmental projects as a physical person, without getting involved in some environmental NGO, I don't have (don't get) any projects. This should be changed; I write this in all questionnaires, we also recommended this in the Ķemeri NP development plan. The question has become very topical.

NGOs are non-governmental and independent; they have ideas, but... they don't have a territory. If the ideas are implemented in a park owned by the state, that's clear, but on private property. I know that many organise the maintenance of biological meadows in various ways through projects that are not related to VARAM (Ministry of Environmental Protection and Regional Development). It should be the other way around. For example, seed collection, which we talked about earlier: I collect knowledge about seeds so that when the time comes, I can use it. Then I will be able to provide a service to others. The start is only with our own funds. I think I could defend more than one environmental project if I were allowed to participate in it. At the moment, this is not possible. That, unfortunately, is the state policy right now.

Sanita: Another example, an invitation appears to apply for the maintenance of natural meadows (not for support payments). We look – for areas starting from 50 ha. I think that is not right, because there are very many small landowners.

Indulis: The big ones have it and get it, and that again is not right! To get something, we, the small ones, would have to unite, register a legal status, etc. I am ready to invest and do it; give me even a little bit, not nothing.

Sanita: Regarding this issue, I wrote a series of questions, and I was answered that it is not profitable and valuable to invest in the small ones. They promised that in two years they would also support the small ones.

Indulis: The process is long.

Sanita: If you don't mow the meadows, you have to pay a fine, which is much less than the work we put in. I know that many pay this fine and live on. Mowing is not financially profitable. In our area, they don't do it.

What are your relationships with Ķemeri National Park?

Indulis: Waiting for you, I thought about this well in advance. We are newcomers to this place, which is important, because if I had grazed cows or mowed grass for my grandparents' rabbits here in my childhood,I would definitely think and perceive many things differently. We arrived knowing the rules, which is why we don't have the feeling that something is or has been restricted. We had our own ideas, for example, there must be contacts with Ķemeri NP, the local municipality, neighbours, and local entrepreneurs. We have achieved that. Furthermore – they tell us – you won't be able to cut anything in ĶNP. People lack knowledge – they don't even try to enquire. I wrote to the park management that it is necessary to clear the meadows of bushes – the goals coincided, the permission is there. There were tasks I completed with the computer. I have good connections with the municipality (Lapmežciems parish), I am on the parish residents' council – I know what is happening, everything is clear. When you live here like this, things happen, and you don't fight, but create favourable conditions for yourself to realise your plans. We tailor our wishes to the real situation. I am not allowed to plough and grow rapeseed here, which I don't want to anyway. What is a defect for others was and is an effect for us. The Ķemeri Park management is happy that we are interested in what is written in their plans and that we do it ourselves.

Sanita: In every place, you must look at what is available, use the opportunities provided by this place. In the park, they are glad that we have meadows and that we use them, and also produce something.

* 30 years ago – in April 1992, 34 forestry engineers graduated from the LLU Faculty of Forestry. It should be added that everyone began their studies at the Faculty of Forestry and Wood Processing of the Latvian University of Agriculture (LAA), graduating from the LLU Faculty of Forestry. The course was relatively large, because it combined both high school graduates who entered the LAA in the autumn of 1987 (not only them, of course), and students who returned from service in the autumn of the same year, who began their studies in 1985. The word fellow graduates is used, because Sanita, Māris, and Pauls “diploma holders” belong to the class of 1992 graduates, while before military service and for one year after it, fellow students were Indulis and Māris.
https://www.mf.llu.lv/sites/mf/files/2017-04/Absolventu%20Saraksts.pdf