Continuing with the topical issue (please also see the interview with Kristaps Klauss on 14 September): is it true, and what is being hidden by “rhetoric delivered with battle cries on the lips” regarding the necessity to reorient, moreover, in a green, long-term, and capable manner. Will this happen sensibly (at least in Latvia), and will someone easily give away our many years of work to others? How will it be? Will it happen?

You are both a professional nurseryman and an equally professional tree surgeon (arborist). How often do you have to convince a tree owner at work by suggesting: “This plant will definitely feel better if we proceed in such and such a way.”

Let me correct that: I am not a professional tree surgeon or arborist; I am still only learning to become one. It is an interesting and modern profession that I have learned through self-study, both by working daily and by reading and learning from colleagues.

Tree care is part of my daily routine, as no nursery can do without the maintenance, pruning, trimming, etc., of trees (seedlings). To this work is added the part that relates to landscaping and beautification. If you planted a tree 15–20 years ago, or if it is a tree planted by your father that might be 30–40 years old, it has grown quite substantial. If such a tree is not cared for, it is left to God’s mercy, and however he manages it, that is how it goes; sometimes a branch has died but has not been pruned. A hand must always be applied. The tasks are varied. We are often called in to help only when a beautiful oak, lime, or spruce tree... threatens to topple onto a house: either the tree was planted in the wrong place, or it did not grow quite right, or... If the right tree is in the right place, it will not require much care. There is enough light, the soil is good – the tree will grow. Of course, if a 7m or 20m tall tree is planted in a place where only a two-metre one would feel good, there will be no joy for the planter or for the tree, which will have to be heavily shaped and maintained. If a tree that requires space grows in the middle of a field, I doubt that maintenance will require much effort: there is sun, enough light, and plenty of moisture.

Returning to your question: it is a daily occurrence, because in every garden where we work, we are asked – does this need a hand here or not? A garden usually doesn't just have trees; there are shrubs and other plants, and often work that starts in one place continues by the pond where water lilies grow, because the pond, for example, could be cleaner.

There is a lot of work in both young and old orchards – the crown must be thinned, water sprouts removed, and it is advised to remove dry and diseased branches, which is often forgotten.

There is a lot of work in old orchards with 60–80-year-old or older fruit trees. I will add that as soon as people thought of picking fruit and bringing it indoors, they also started shaping fruit trees according to their own understanding. However, near old manors and dilapidated houses, these old trees, 10–15 and sometimes even more metres tall, live for 60 or even a hundred years even without special human help. They produce, maybe even seeds germinate, the tree continues, and then a human comes along and: look, they don’t like those “bruised” fruits.

It would be the same as stuffing a person into clothes and shoes that are far too small for their stature just to look good. This comparison might not be liked, but the fact remains – humans like to subordinate a great deal to their own convenience, whether it is themselves, a tree, or anything else.

Do you often have to convince a tree owner – let’s save this one, let’s not fell it?

Oh, yes! Often. Over time, people have become more sensible. The Latvian vulgaris has long enjoyed working in the garden, and I think the Latvian differs quite significantly from the average European who calls a specialist for every single task. Latvians try it themselves, make mistakes, do it, and make mistakes again. What is pleasing: in recent years, if doubts arise before a task, they call, consult, and do so quite often.

A common question is: “I have such and such a tree growing, I have maintained and pruned it, but I’m afraid of making a mess of it.” Sometimes a neighbour has damaged a tree: “Listen! This option won't work, even I understand that, but I don't know how to fix it myself, can you help?” I consider such a conversation a sensible way to solve a problem. Moreover, the problem is usually not all that serious and does not require much work. If a tree is special and very important to a person, a family, or a dynasty, we have to act more creatively.

The most visible novelty of the Covid period (at least in the media) – the transplanting of large specimens or mature trees from one place to another.

That is not really a novelty of the Covid period. Large specimens have been in demand at all times, for example, in urban plantings. This is logical because many of us were young or younger when it was quite understandable to kick, break, or jump onto something while passing by. That is precisely why larger trees are planted in cities to reduce the probability of them being broken or otherwise damaged. From my perspective as a nurseryman, growing such a large plant is not simple. Compared to southern countries where agro-climatic conditions are more suitable, it is definitely more expensive to grow them in Latvia. Relatively few large trees are grown in our nurseries. If a person thinks about their garden and does so quite seriously, such plants have a definite purpose. For example, last year one of my clients wanted a garden immediately. Yes, it cost quite a lot, but it was also “immediate”!

A tree needs to “take root”, it has to settle in

Yes, it does, but even a “large” plant can be planted in a way that it feels good and grows. You can also correctly and professionally plant 200- and 300-year-old trees. Of course, it is not simple, and it costs quite a substantial amount of money, but in this regard, drawing a line – economic versus human – is quite difficult.

What would be correct: to fell an old tree and build a house, or to move the main road a few metres away. It is about a choice: will we approach the situation more creatively and preserve the value, or... I believe that a tree is a value, because in my lifetime it will likely not grow so big that I cannot wrap my arms around it. It needs more years; the tree was there before me and will be after – that is a value. If the tree was also planted by my ancestor... that is already an added value. This is now very trendily called sustainability! Either you live for today and think a little bit about tomorrow, or you live and think seriously about tomorrow and turn your thoughts into actions. These are thoughts about children, about the environment, so that it remains sufficiently green and pleasant. I do not think that a person will grow up and – hop – want to eliminate all of that. That is definitely not it!

Of course, one can also see the opposite – when driving to or past new housing developments, one can see felled groves or... A few years pass, and I see – they are bringing in large trees to the houses, so... If they had thought about it in time...

The designer did not want to “fit” the houses between the trees that were already growing there...

That too – to think half a step ahead – which will save both nerves and funds. Although, as I already mentioned, there are times when planting large trees definitely pays off. For example, in hedges, if a building needs to be protected from the wind and one does not want to wait until the hedge grows. Or – another example – for several weeks every morning you look through the window and see your neighbour, and you cannot leave the house unseen by them – planting something larger and bushier to screen the view could be sensible. So I think: there are cases when mature or large trees are not a fashion statement – rather a functional necessity and, of course, a question of means.

A fashion statement is rather something else – cities are becoming greener and urban greening is becoming commonplace. What to do with concrete so that it would be greener? We will have to rack our brains!

In more than one country there is great determination: to plant, and a lot. They usually talk about millions of plants, but... Recently the Danish press wrote quite sadly that they had been planted, but people had forgotten to maintain them...

If a tree in the city dies – it is replaced. Whether it was planted correctly is another question. Landscape architects tend to design this or that not very thoughtfully or foresightedly. One shouldn't get angry about that immediately, because sometimes there is a understandable explanation for the situation. Moreover, if everything happened very, very sensibly and correctly, over time we would not have those utterly magnificent (unique) trees that we occasionally find in some corner of a city. For example, two mulberry trees grow next to the Jelgava Municipality building. What is wrong with them? Nothing! It is more of a Mediterranean tree, which is slowly starting to appear here as well.

In cities, we see black locusts, acacias, and also field maples, whose finer varieties tend to languish, while in other places strong and healthy oaks and hornbeams grow that please the eye. What is bad about that?

One needs to experiment, but sensibly, because experiments take place using taxpayers' money. I too have paid for experiments. So – if you clearly know that a plant will likely not grow in the intended place, to plant it and let it languish... I will be critical of this: did you think before you planted? What were you thinking about?

From the moment of planting until the result, there is usually a long road ahead. We must plant much more thoughtfully and more carefully monitor the work of the planters. For example, in one lime alley or another, one can see how differently the trees grow... some taller, some shorter, some crooked, some lopsided... Why is that? The soil was not prepared correctly: not a very knowledgeable planter and work coordinator happened to be there. Someone, you see, manages to take the money but perform the work in a slipshod manner. Piles of gravel remnants tend to be left under the tree roots, sometimes even a concrete block; instead of that, one should think – how to improve the soil, how to drain the moisture, how to act so that the salt spread on the streets does not harm the trees – that is careful work and good, deep knowledge. I will say, landscape architects who would be “ten-in-one” (well-versed in the nuances of urban planting), and installers who understand construction matters and see how to maintain the planted tree in the future, are not easily found... If professional qualities and people still need to be united in some European-funded project, where very fine coordination is required... It will be difficult!

I am glad that in recent years landscaping and beautification companies have grown significantly, have educated their employees as well as colleagues in municipalities (Yes, there is also a lack of knowledge among municipal planning specialists!). The situation of “planting today, replacing in two years” is already becoming history. If a planting dies, the reasons are investigated. Sometimes the reason for a tree dying is quite prosaic – salt and the amount of it.

Can trees be planted along all the streets of Riga’s centre according to the criteria you mentioned?

Cities need trees! Full stop. If someone has conceived a paved square with a building in the middle, that is not thought out sensibly. Shade is needed, moisture retention is needed, a tree in the city levels out temperature fluctuations, the air will be fresher, etc. Yes, maintenance work will be needed, for example, leaf collection! I see that efforts to make the city greener are being met with applause. However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, where you will end up rattling. Why? It is not easy to rebuild and redesign streets with intense traffic. If the street was not intended for such a situation (trees along its edges), the redesign and rebuilding can disturb many people.

I am glad that in my native Jelgava the lack of trees is not a problem; rather, one should think about restoring old plantings. If people call me and grumble that “they are felling again”, I reply: “They are felling, but there will be something else in its place!” Planting between paving stones and concrete, where there was nothing before, will not be easy. Most likely, the tree will start to languish... Similarly to a flower in a vase or a pot plant – you have to change the water or transplant, fertilise, water, etc. The result could outweigh the expenses. I think the biggest problem we face is not experiments or attempts, but suddenness and a lack of information. I assume an entrepreneur or a house resident could build upon or supplement the landscaper’s ideas if they were given more time. Ideas can be good, but the execution is limping! Regardless of how much the redesign of K. Barona Street in Riga was criticised... but – experience is necessary! I sensed that plantings in boxes would not “work”, because the boxes need to be larger, the plant selection more thoughtful, etc., but interning in the Netherlands or Germany will not help; it is necessary to do it right here – in Latvia. Latvia’s winter, plant hardiness, Latvia’s cities, Latvia’s conditions.

It is not easy for an urban planner in Latvia to take into account and model various factors important in a city; for me, when setting up a garden, it is much simpler.

A professional eye and hand are often needed in the well-kept city parks, for example, when surveying beautiful, old trees.

There is no time, there is no knowledge, there are no specialists, there is no money.

A vast field of work lies ahead...

I agree – vast! Each city, each municipality, each inhabited place solves issues differently.

Someone announces a tender, identifying the places that need tidying; another organises outsourcing; yet another hires a city gardener, assigning them lower-level specialists to carry out practical work. Large cities can afford landscaping specialists, but... there is not enough money for all city parks. We are the greenest country in the world, but there is not enough money and time to tidy everything (yes, everything!!!!), we are not that rich.

The topical word: climate. Do nurserymen also feel this in their work? You mentioned mulberry trees in our conversation; edible walnuts are ripening in Latvia. Peaches and apricots have been known since the 70s. What else is “coming” from the south?

It is a matter of time. Not speaking about climate – we are learning, breeders are not sleeping, they are working. Plants are being “created”; the classic introduction known in the 19th–20th centuries is no longer relevant. As it was once: I will bring a cypress from Italy, see what happens, whether it will grow. Thanks to a few enthusiasts, a fair amount of exotics could be found in our parks and gardens as early as the beginning of the 20th century. Of course, one must always be careful not to introduce invasive organisms (plants), of which we also have quite enough, for example, the boxelder maple, which grows in almost every thicket, or goldenrod, with which we are struggling in the nursery. There are also the well-known juneberries in Latvia, which many places also grow in thickets or along roadsides: many try to eradicate them, others – to cultivate them.

Over time, one or another once-exotic plant has settled in well here and is gradually being considered local or our own, for example, elderberries and viburnums; I predict they will soon talk like that about actinidia and lemongrass...

Processes happen in parallel – we grow, observe, supplement, and thus accumulate knowledge.

Covid has caused a construction boom (an increase in volume). Do nurserymen also feel this?

There is a lot of work. Speaking about nursery farming in the broad sense: in pandemic conditions, there will be winners and losers. The “classical” nurseryman with established sales channels can be considered a winner. Living more at home, people pay attention to the untidy things that suddenly “catch the eye”. Many people in 2019 and 2020 tidied up their gardens!

But! A nurseryman is not just an industrial one; seedlings are also grown by a lady or a gentleman who does it for their own pleasure and to supplement their pension. Where are these seedlings sold? At the market, which was definitely not the best place to be active during this time. The regular market is now operating, but last year trade fairs disappeared, some of the planned ones are not happening this year either... Events with the opportunity to trade are still few. “Small” growers could not reorient so easily. Understandably, the pandemic does not bother plants.

It must be remembered that perennials and flowering plants must be sold on time. If you don't sell them – it will be bad! Demand has grown, in some plant groups there is a shortage of seedlings, and prices are rising accordingly. Link after link. On one hand, there is good turnover; on the other hand, you have to think ahead. Nurserymen are currently investing very heavily in their companies, which is good.

An important component of the nursery production chain is peat substrate, for the production of which problems are starting to arise in Latvia. As is known, European Union institutions pretend not to understand the situation in Latvia (and not only there), speaking of peat only in the context of a fossil resource and fuel...

I sigh heavily over this! The concerns are justified. My approach to the situation is pragmatic – nursery farming is plant growing, with which I earn money, with which the people in my company earn, we all get our share of the tax money we earn, the industry warms and supports the economy, of course, my company as well. The nursery industry has changed over the years: 50 years ago, you could only buy seedlings in spring or autumn, that was normal, they were bare-root seedlings without leaves.

In the 21st century, one can no longer live in “two seasons”, one must work year-round. One of the important prerequisites for growing high-quality seedlings is peat substrate, which has no analogue. One can try to grow in soil, but... that automatically reduces or even removes export opportunities for seedlings because the soil contains many microorganisms (phytosanitary risks, legislation that does not allow exporting soil) and it is heavy.

After the 2008 crisis, we were briefly forced to grow seedlings in pure soil. The pots rapidly compressed, the plants became sick, weeds thrived, as there is never a shortage of seeds in the soil.

Alternatives to peat substrate are expensive and not well-thought-out. The current technological chains do not allow for a rapid change in growing technologies. By removing peat substrate from the nursery cycle, the industries will suffer very heavily. The view or way of thinking: “if we ban it, it will encourage or stimulate the creation of something new”, is unproductive. Creating the new... Maybe, but most likely the “new” product will come from abroad, it will be more expensive and, in competition, even those few cents by which the price of a seedling grown in Latvia will change can be decisive when competing with seedlings from Poland, Germany, or the Netherlands. Moreover, the volumes that the aforementioned major countries provide to the market are enormous, which is why competitors will be able to lower the price based on volume. For us, these factors will add up and the price will rise.

Another very primitive thing. That which we will plant and bring from abroad will also cost us more. We will all pay for the fact that they will prevent us from extracting peat here. I am definitely against reckless peat bog extraction, as has happened here and there in Europe, but to act recklessly because someone demands it, without carefully and thoroughly thinking through a clear and understandable plan on how to transform (And answer: can it even be done?) production so that vitally important fields do not suffer?!!!...

The entire next European financial planning period is aimed at implementing and ensuring the Green Deal. Who will do it? What plants will they plant? Plans that we hear in the context of peat extraction are in complete contradiction to the Green Deal. Although... in recent years, a strong environmental protection course has prevailed in Europe and Latvia, sometimes without thinking and deliberately shooting ourselves in the foot.

I am speaking about my family, about my employees. If someone tries or will try to tell me: “Listen, you will have to sacrifice and make sacrifices... You will live on the street, but we will be fine!” I will not agree to that! I think many will not agree to that. I grow seedlings, I have planted much more compared to others, and by liquidating or restricting certain areas or industries, a careful and sensible assessment would be necessary – what and whether it will give us in Latvia.

In Latvia, the sugar production industry was liquidated; not so long ago, the European Union paid a lot of money to cut up fishing vessels. 5 years passed, and they offered to pay for fleet renewal. What to renew from what was cut up? It seems smarter compared to sugar factories, but this industry was also effectively liquidated. I understand if 6-7 representatives of scientific institutes sit at the table and say: “There is no future, let's not grow! It will be cheaper and more profitable to produce sugar there and there...” I understand...

But Europe does not have and will not have peat to give us or bring. It doesn't! Peat is held by Russia and Belarus, and other countries... who, watching all this, rub their hands, because they see the increase in their export volumes with their mind's eye. Will we allow the nursery industry along with the peat industry in Latvia to end and employees to retrain as tourist guides who will take tourists of the old world to “wild bogs”, or will we still try to produce something ourselves, and be at least a little bit less dependent on what the wealthier neighbours throw at us?