Current issues in business and politics are discussed by Uldis Ameriks, Chairman of the Board of Latvia's largest peat extraction and processing company, Laflora, and Māris Liopa, Chairman of the Forest Certification Council of Latvia

Uldis Ameriks: The rhetoric from politicians and activists about the desire to be both ambitious and at the forefront of Europe sounds loud, and to some ears, even very pleasing. But! Latvia has a number of sectors with their own specific features and situations that differ from other European countries. If we talk about sustainability, the definition of which includes a balance between environment, social sphere, and economy, this balance is not visible in the European Union's future plans... So: are Europe's plans truly sustainable, or are they popular, nice-sounding, but only for a brief moment?

Māris Liopa: As soon as talk turns to the environment, they say one thing to us entrepreneurs, but at the moment, the environment and its “requirements” prevail over both the economy and social issues: the environment determines (almost) everything.

UA: For comparison: if there are ethnicities living in Latvia that are disappearing and which we are losing, much like a beetle, plant, or bird being protected with our last remaining strength, perhaps it is valuable for us in Latvia to preserve these ethnicities with their traditions, language, and environment, because that is also a value for the world. If, within the FSC certification system, we are thinking about the protection of local communities, we must think about Latvians, whose numbers on a global scale are small. We – the Latvians – must ensure adequate living conditions so that life is fulfilling, so that we can use our resources in our own territory, and so that we can also protect them.

ML: A large part of people are slowly starting to understand the situation and ask: “Where will we go, where should we head?” How many waves of emigration have we experienced, not counting the two world wars? Out there, away from home, a Latvian “dissolves and disappears.” The latest figures on demographic indicators (2012–2020) are tragic. One can calculate at what point, if things continue this way, there will be a “full stop” for Latvians. When talking about this issue, I often encounter rather stupid demagoguery: “How do 360,000 Icelanders live?” Excuse me, there are tribes living in the rainforests with 100 or 200 members... Is the goal of the new policy to have the smallest possible number of Latvians? I think the goal should be different – the preservation of space for the nation's living and future.

UA: Of course, one can agree and participate in world-saving efforts – the climate and its problems, but... this undertaking is undoubtedly complex. Interesting views are emerging: nations are not interesting, we are citizens of the world or Europe, everyone shares common values, and so on.

ML: Studying the Finnish Forest Research Institute's summary on the positive impact of climate change in Northern Europe, I must say that for us, the changes are beneficial; for example, the vegetation period is increasing, and timber growth is increasing. Developing the bioeconomy is advantageous for us in Latvia. The negative aspect is invasive species, but that is a global problem. What about the “major damage”: forest fires – it’s hard to say, wind... Toms Bricis compared the late 60s with the present day in Liepāja. At that time, strong winds of over 20 m/s were observed more than 30 days a year. Now it is 2–3 days.

UA: I am a Liepāja native and I remember the storms of 1967 and 1969 – they arrived like hurricanes, the wind speed was around 50 m/s. The park in Liepāja was flattened, Reinis forest was flattened. It didn't end there; in the 70s, the wind raged in the Ugāle area. Not so long ago, during A. Kalvītis' government, we were left without electricity because of the wind.

ML: Climate issues must not be approached religiously. It is not pleasant when a “green steamroller” runs over entrepreneurs. One must be able to evaluate very critically what is what. For example, the recent event in Ķemeri National Park, 330 ha of clear-cutting for wetland restoration, where there were no obstacles to logging. So: if activities can be included under “environmental protection or restoration,” do what you want, but... if you want to do it as an entrepreneur, problems and obstacles arise.

UA: I would like to identify those political forces that analyze the situation from Latvia's point of view, thinking about the people who want to live and work here, and which political forces consider this country only as a stopover or a stepping stone: “get the vaccine and leave for good.” If political forces have a platform, their understanding of these issues is also important. Do representatives of political forces clearly understand what climate neutrality is? Can they explain it clearly themselves?

ML: In a State Forest Service survey of forest rangers, 36% of the surveyed professionals with higher education said that sustainability is fundamentally based on nature conservation. What will they answer in surveys about carbon, climate, etc.?

UA: European Commission mandate: “climate neutrality” means the preservation of biodiversity because “the world is dying, let's build a new one.” At one time, a politician, now a minister, spoke at a pre-election gathering in Berga Bazārs about changes and their necessity. That might be clear, but will the changes be based on previous decisions and what has been done so far? No, we will make everything from scratch! A new world that ignores what has been accomplished previously.

ML: In the EU Taxonomy Regulation, they tried by all means to force in the terms “primary forests and close-to-nature forestry,” which are highly interpretable concepts. They can be used by anyone without competence or understanding of the forest, including people who understand nothing about the forest or any other sector, but are “activists.” That is not a serious level. Moreover, many people do not delve into documents and concepts, but... they feel it sounds and looks neat. So, good!

UA: Science is often mentioned in discussions. What is science? There is a research phase, an information collection phase, the determination of the existing situation. There are scientists who will consider: the more pests in the forest, the better, because that is diversity. That is not always understandable. For example, there is currently concern about Spanish slugs, which are collected by the bucketful in some places. Are they a value for us in Latvia, or is it something bad?

ML: Undoubtedly – bad!

UA: By creating networks of nature conservation areas, we are in many places also facilitating the spread of undesirable species. Yes, these are invasive species... And if you cannot cope with them, like with the rabbits in Australia... What then? You cannot apply one yardstick to Latvia, Spain, Germany, and Denmark. How can one measure the situation in different countries with different experiences and circumstances using the same sustainability guidelines? We must determine our planned actions ourselves because we know the situation in Latvia best.

ML: The Biodiversity Strategy emphasizes: every country is unique! That is a job for the locals. So that it doesn't happen like with the OECD: some citizen arrives, proudly calling themselves a representative of this organization, opens a folder, and starts lecturing and blessing us. What happens? Latvian NGO conclusions end up at the Nature Conservation Agency, where they are packaged accordingly, sent to the OECD, which then presents this information as its own, and the criticism falls on our heads.

UA: The OECD comes and shakes a finger: how can it be that so many people in Latvia live below the poverty line, how can it be that..., how can it be... The OECD representative gives their speech, our people listen, everything continues. If “friends of the environment” come and talk, in Latvia they are immediately ready to bow and execute! Why? There is no money to eliminate poverty and it is not allocated, but in environmental matters, a stream of finance flows. For example, in Germany, there is the University of Greifswald, which includes information in its report that 50% of Latvia's peatlands have been drained. What does a German understand by that? In a former peatland, grain, potatoes, or grass grow. What does a Latvian understand? The university is talking nonsense!

We sent objections about the erroneous data to this university. No, they claim they are correct! Where do you think Nord Stream-2 ends? In Greifswald. So... What does that look like?

ML: The Ministry of Environmental Protection and Regional Development (VARAM), led by its minister, currently relies on slogans, completely lacking thoughts on Latvia's economic development even in the near future. The Environmental Advisory Council is happy to flaunt its opinions, but... who makes it up? The story of the Ox and Jupiter, where Jupiter is currently the green NGO sector. The Nature Conservation Agency (DAP) evaluates the information provided to it very uncritically, often ending up in serious contradictions. For example, the many species protection plans sound nice, but... create very unpleasant consequences. If the forest sector has Silava, the Latvian State Institute of Wood Chemistry, and also the Faculty of Forestry, the scientific base for green NGOs is quite conditional; there are activists and “loud-speakers.” By the way, a species protection plan should soon be prepared for the brown bear, which is appearing here in increasing numbers. Hunting organizations have received such news.

The main question to which VARAM provides no answer is: how much and what do we need? By the way, what small forest birds can you name?

UA: Chaffinch, wryneck, wood warbler, willow warbler, various warblers...

ML: Good! And now tell me: who, where, and how many have seen and counted them? For example, the forest plot in Vecumnieki municipality near the Zvirgzde River. How many chaffinches are there, how many..., how many..., how many...? How does bird counting take place and how is the bird index measured? When I hear them talk at a conference about the cubic meters obtained and changes in the bird index... Tons and cubic meters are one thing, hectares are something else.

UA: Everything lies in the explanation and the way it is presented. For example, the recent story about pesticides, where information circulated on social networks: everything in Latvia is poisoned because there are large percentage increases in pesticide sales. Wait, how real is that, calculated per unit? Moreover, all pesticide deniers could be treated homeopathically.

ML: If there is consistent action, let there be!

UA: Resources must be used optimally and sustainably. In the Latvian situation, the definition of sustainability remains, but we fill it with our own content. There are environmental issues, there are areas where we do not intrude, for example, Moricsala, Šlītere, Teiči, etc., which must remain untouched.

ML: There are territories whose protection status should be changed, which is also acknowledged in informal conversations by activists from environmental organizations. For example, certain areas of Gauja National Park whose protection makes no sense. Of course, as soon as that is said aloud...

If we look wider, I must repeat: where are we going? The poverty level is quite frightening; in the center of Riga, for example, there are queues at soup kitchens. One should not smirk at that, because it is not good! In the 31st year of the restoration of independence, we have many people who live poorly. More than 28% of Latvia's population is on the poverty threshold…

UA: I will call it a snobbish or arrogant approach: “We will only develop a smart economy, we will be its frontrunners and precision mechanics.” We must think about the people who cannot do that. To each their own! Work is not just a philosophical or economic category; work ensures that a human being is human! That cannot be forgotten! Sorry, today in many cases I see how the once-taught Leninist ideas live and win. Of course, that is known and understood by those who got to master them in the education programs of those times.

ML: Worldwide demand for K. Marx's “Das Kapital” has grown

UA: The Bolsheviks, however, turned the beautifully proclaimed picture into a terrifying reality

ML: The top Bolshevik leadership for some reason did not tolerate the countryside and farmers. They created special military units to requisition the harvest. It was crazy!

UA: Mārtiņš Lācis* wrote that the nobility must be destroyed as a class: from infant to old man. Those ideas existed and I see that we are slowly moving in that direction again.

ML: Speaking of people, we often see the attitude: one is more valuable than another, namely, the attitude toward some is uncritical, while others are met with open dislike. “Green” thinking is above others and, first of all, common sense.

For example, in Latvia, there is a very special desire and tendency to look for the bad, often something that you won't even find here. We do not have the Congo or another rainforest country and deforestation to set up palm or corn plantations in their place, we do not have ship graveyards from other countries like on the West African coast, we do not have widespread illegal logging or bands of poachers who want to hunt down our last flying squirrel or white hare. But these globally worst examples are emphasized and mentioned even in public media.

UA: Latvian forests have a big problem with waste. I know that people talk about it, but... Driving from Kalnciems to Jelgava, I turned onto the road to Ložmetējkalns. What do I see? “Fufaika” jackets, clothes, tires, refrigerators. People dump their old life in the forest!

ML: That means that something is “completely down the drain”: either there is nowhere to dispose of it, or it costs too much, or littering in the forest, in their opinion, is normal. They’ll clean it up eventually. That is not spoken about aloud much.

UA: Continuing about climate and green issues, I see another state-level problem. VARAM is responsible for environmental (“green”) affairs and climate issues, the Ministry of Economics is responsible for energy, the Ministry of Agriculture looks at land use. There is a series of guidelines, there are plans, but... a holistic view is missing. There is no state vision.

ML: Talking with entrepreneurs, we have concluded that Latvia lacks a strategically national plan. Where are we going, where are we heading, what do we want, for example, in 2076? Who knows? There are many voluminous concepts, strategies, plans... that contain only slogans and phrases.

UA: During the development of Latvia's National Development Plan (NAP), I participated in one of the working groups. In the plan, we talk about seven years, the NAP... should be 100 (!!!!) years! There are near-term goals (10–20–30 years), there are further ones. A tree grows in 60–90 years. How can a national development plan in a major forest nation be designed for 5 or 7 years? If it is a plan to attract EU funding, I understand! But then let’s call it a short-term plan for financial attraction.

ML: Latvia lacks elementary honesty: to say who writes it, to say who it is written or prepared for, to say what is expected or anticipated. Instead, we hear a retelling of Brussels bureaucratic language, which says nothing. Phrases. You won't get fed on phrases!

UA: If it is clearly stated that the direction of Latvia's development (economy) for the next 100 years is local resources (forest, peat, land) and their rational, understandable, and sustainable use, then... Historically, we have strong agriculture and forestry, the pharmaceutical and chemical industry, wood industry, and food industry, also IT. We put that together and think further: education must be subordinated to this, regional development must be subordinated.

ML: Regional development, much like in schools and medicine, is proceeding experimentally. There is a republic named the “Ministry of Education and Science,” which digs in its own vegetable patch and feels fine!

UA: If Latvia has resources and science, one must be a great villain not to think about it in school curricula. Mathematics and physics are not meant only for universities and programmers or inventors. These subjects are necessary for logical thinking! Text problems, arithmetic... Studying in the first year at the Faculty of Hydro-amelioration, we had a subject called descriptive geometry. It effectively determined: you will be able to work in the industry or not. Quite a few dropped out in this subject, in the second year, they dropped out because of higher mathematics. Those who remained graduated from the university. Education must be subordinated to the country's long-term goals. Currently, it is a supplier of manpower: I recently read a publication whose author said that Latvia should present a bill to those countries where people who received their education in Latvia have gone to work. That would be compensable.

ML: Those who studied seriously in the 80s received a good education and at 18 were already quite broadly knowledgeable. We were oriented in many sectors.

UA: I had the opportunity to be educated by teachers who had started working in pre-war Latvia! When I compared how it was, how it is, what the population was, what the settlement was like. Small schools... The teacher in small schools taught everything. Now you have to travel somewhere to a big or larger school. That removes the local people's contact with the parish or village.

ML: “Intelligent shrinkage,” as they call it in the state administration. Silence tourism, as stated by DAP representatives: one needs to develop silence tourism in the Latvian countryside because, look, in “sparsely populated South Korea” (only 51 million inhabitants!!!) people from small towns are going to enjoy the silence of the countryside.

UA: An NGO activist must be intelligent enough to, seeing the topic of conversation, be able to participate and talk, also understanding something. There was a time when Viesturs Ķerus was surprised by the fact that peat producers produce peat substrate and even export it. Wait! In another conversation: “We entrepreneurs earn and pay taxes!” “No, taxes don't interest us, we have nature that we care about!” Stop! We will take care of nature and will not let you work, but you will be the ones thinking about taxes.

Life must be looked at in the big picture, how it affects us, how we must care for the world, but we must care for Latvia and our nation! Everything starts with your own backyard!

I understand how documents are made in Europe. The fact that the Taxonomy principles appear at the same time as the new Financing period, simultaneously with the crazy financial machine that operates in connection with the pandemic... A coincidence? No! The Recovery Plan is not support for recovery, but funding for other goals. This plan should change its name: continuation of the climate plan or subsidy for achieving climate neutrality. There is no talk of recovery.

ML: There will be little money for the economy!

UA: Entrepreneurs' interests in Latvia are represented by various organizations and associations, their representatives have excellent knowledge and abilities, but what I have noticed is that as soon as we wait for a clear and understandable decision, certain brakes are applied.

ML: Something “gets lost in translation” or there is a lack of firmness in setting regulations. Entrepreneurs are the only ones who earn taxes! Others handle the money allocated and redistributed to them!

UA: The Covid19 time has understandably shown and explained: what Latvia lives on (financially), what is the basis of the country. Namely, the bureaucracy, which did not lose anything during this time and continued to operate in the usual mode; the reduction of staff in the state administration did not happen. Will the allocation of certain money for digitalization reduce the number of state administration employees? If the public sector receives significant financial support for digitalization, in return there must be a clear message: for this sum, we reduce the number of system employees by ...%.

ML: As understood from the VARAM presentation, money will be invested in the system so that a person does not have to dig or look for information in different sources, but the digital administration will send the citizen everything necessary. Currently, the system works with various interruptions, and we see that one day, another day, yet another day “something is not working.” For example, e-health was allocated a lot of money, it is now found to be unusable and...

UA: That is what we are talking about. I do not have a good experience with the state administration. For example, the JSC “Latvijas valsts meži,” which is hit and slowed down and controlled from many sides... What happens? Every action and procedure, according to specially prepared normative documents, must be justified by a series of voluminous procedures, which are determined not by professionals, but by public sector requirements. Namely, a large and professionally operating company is forced not to act as best as possible, but as a series of non-professionals think – the State Audit Office, the Competition Council, etc. The state system has created a heavy system. For example, do the “recommendations” of the State Audit Office, which are not anything mandatory (but the State Audit Office uses this word not in a quite Latvian sense), positively affect the work of the audited entity, or is an additional administrative burden created? Is there such an analysis?

ML: Exactly, because the company's specialists are burdened not with performing direct duties, but with ensuring the requirements of the State Audit Office, ...council, and supervisory groups, which have nothing to do with the company's activities. The State Audit Office often surprises with extremes, for example, a correct and understandable message about the burden of various service pensions on the earning part of society and... an unprofessional attempt to follow the European model when talking about lynx hunting. Furthermore, in Latvia, there is no ministry or institution that would seriously monitor whether the excuse about the requirements of Europe, EC, OECD, or NATO arises from the organization's documents, or if it is a local initiative. On a national scale, one can see a tendency to praise some and mandatorily bury others. Currently, before the municipal elections, there are concerns (justified) about the decrease in municipal budget revenues, right next to that we hear activists howling against entrepreneurship. Political hedging...

UA: I agree, because often in a company, one does not think about development, but about serving the requirements of various state institutions. The result: there is no decision, or it is dragged out as long as possible.

ML: ...and we wonder that many things do not happen, and we lag behind in some planning documents by one period or another. We often compare Latvia with neighboring countries; we are neither dumber nor lazier, but for us, bureaucracy and the lack of fast and necessary decisions have a very negative, development-hindering impact.

UA: That is seen in situations when a document approval, change, or, God forbid, a law change is necessary: how long and meaningless the procedure is! There are legal battles where often ministries, departments, or – simply – those involved want to show their competence and abilities. For example, in the working group on Latvia's subsoil, I felt a desire to provide for every possible case and life situation in the regulations. If a person is a civil servant, they must not base their actions only on documents, because then anyone can be a civil servant: read the manual and work. What else is needed? The tragedy is that politicians, upon coming to power, end up in dependence on civil servants...

ML: In a vise...

UA: European directives, regulations, international conventions prevail... Does anything comply with them? If there is a violation, you have to pay a fine, which no one wants to sign up for. The state's task: if you can't get through the door, look at how else you can get in – there are windows, there are chimneys, there is an opportunity to break the wall... More than once, the European Commission has stated: “this or that document is not a law,” “the member state itself, observing the principles, can act as it needs to.” In Latvia, a recommendation for some reason turns into a law.

ML: That has been happening for years; in Latvia, it is customary. For example: “Can one get money for compensations from the Green Deal's big finances?” “No, there is no such information, it is unlikely there will be, who knows if it will be possible.”

That means: no one has been interested in that, because state administration employees do not care! Not my pig, not my field! Officials are not interested in solving specific issues. Does the state stand up for its citizen and justice, or... “Piles” of documents are accepted and discussed, but upon reaching the solution of a specific citizen's specific case, the action stops... For example, the apartment question of artist Aivars Vilipsons... To what extent is our country our country?

UA: The lack of information is worrying: if you operate in some sector and decisions are made about you and your work, the decision-making process can be kept secret, there is an invisible side (EC, ministries' undisclosed goals). There are questions where a referendum is necessary, which Latvia avoids. A long, long time ago, there was a referendum on the privatization of Latvenergo. If now a Latvian representative publicly announces: “We and Denmark will be European frontrunners!” Wait, stop! Who gave you the right, who authorized you, whom did you ask? Is everything okay with our democratic system?

ML: We need to sharpen our teeth (in a positive sense)! Ensuring sustainability, involving organizations in activities, and working with politicians. I am not calling for unnecessary sharpness, but – that is how we must act from now on. There is no stability because you don't know: what will be approved, what will be adopted, and how it will be interpreted further.

Adding to what you said: “Currently, using Covid19 as an excuse, the state administration is 'blasting and rolling' as usual.” An impression arises, and a great desire or liking for not thinking, not solving, but regulating, is felt. And both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Health have really liked this feeling (and the great power).

UA: In 2019, I participated in a LIFE Restore working group. At that time, Krišjānis Kariņš had already expressed Latvia's ambitious goals in the climate field at the European level, presenting them with pathos. I asked, how will you achieve them? Specifically! The goals are there, silence follows them... We take on something, we brag about ambition, but... how, who, what?

ML: In Uzbekistan, a long, long time ago, they promised huge cotton harvests, they couldn't manage to get them, local leaders had big problems. Now it is similar: politics happens at someone else's expense.

UA: Currently, actions are based not on data or science, but on terms: “We think so, we believe so, it seems so to me.” “We, ornithologists, experts think so...” Nature counting is not science, it is sociology.

ML: There is still no plan and clarity on what we will do with the data obtained in nature counting. The idea is constantly being pushed – the main thing is to count how much and what we have in Latvia. And so they count - “then we'll see what to do…” It doesn't matter that the removal of about 200,000 ha of land from economic circulation seems credible?!

UA: Science has basic principles that are recognized. There is a feeling that currently many things are happening according to political conviction and political mandate. In the Soviet Union, there was such a Lysenko, who believed that genetics is a false science that is not Marxist. We know what happened to those who thought differently... It is similar now... Not delving in, not researching, howling...
* Mārtiņš Lācis (real name Jānis Sudrabs), Latvian revolutionary, author of the concept of red terror