Māris Liopa, Chairman of the Board of the Forest Owners and Managers Confederation of Latvia, Chairman of the Forest Certification Council of Latvia, and Head of the LTRK Land Use Committee, has spent over twenty-five years working on forestry management, timber supply and logistics, forest certification and assessment, environmental protection, and renewable energy projects. He is a forester by education and conviction. He is also the originator and director of the zemeunvalsts.lv portal. Our conversation is about having a strong backbone and the importance of defending our borders.

Your list of positions and public duties is quite impressive. Why did you need a portal on top of all that?

Forestry and agriculture are the backbone of the Latvian economy. Yet in recent years, a dangerous trend has emerged: a myth is being circulated that everything is wrong with our forests. I suspect that some non-governmental organisations are doing this to obtain European funding for preventing a so-called environmental catastrophe. But there is no need to look for Brazil or the Congo in Latvia – to invent non-existent problems. Instead, the problems that do exist should be addressed constructively, rather than running around chaotically and misleading the public into believing that everything in Latvia is perishing, that animal and plant populations and biodiversity are declining, and that there is horror and devastation everywhere. To provide clarity, the sector needed an independent information channel where forestry issues could be explained objectively and in plain language. That is why, with the support of like-minded people, I founded the portal, which is now three years old. I am glad that the portal does not rely on advertising, because that is the only way to maintain freedom and independence.

Land and state – what do these concepts mean to you?

I am a small-town boy, raised in a good and strong family. But my childhood is always associated with the countryside, because in the summers I lived with my father's cousins – eating cherries, listening to the chirping of grasshoppers and the birds singing, and feeling the land and nature. It was there that I realised I lived in an infinitely beautiful place, blessed by God, where everything was so very sunny…

How interesting! My childhood is also always associated with the sun. Until I suddenly remembered an episode: my cousin and I are sitting under a table in the orchard, listening to the quick summer rain drumming against the oilcloth. So, it did rain in my childhood after all! But even then, the humid air was joyful and thick with scents, sounds, and sensations. And it felt so good…

There you go, how similar! I also feel like the sun was always shining in my childhood. A sun-drenched garden, cherries, the summer kitchen at my aunts', wasps on jars of raspberry jam, the first trip by horse and cart. And then the forest! In the Latvian landscape, fields constantly alternate with forests. Field, forest, field, forest – that is our land.

As for the state, there was little talk of that in my childhood. I was born and finished school during the Soviet occupation. In our family, we always celebrated Christmas and Easter, but not the 18th of November. However, both my grandmothers, one from Zemgale and the other from Sēlija, would occasionally tell me about history. My Sēlija grandmother was Lithuanian, spoke five languages, and told me about pre-war Latvia. You see, the mix of blood can be different, but what constitutes Latvianness is the language and a sense of belonging. Language is the primary characteristic of a nation's foundation. The language in which your mother sings lullabies and your father teaches you the Lord's Prayer. That is why the state must be like a mother. And you must be like a loving and responsible child.

But the head of state must be like a father – like a father of the nation.

Exactly! Unfortunately, at the moment, we do not have a father of the nation. And then I have to think about how our state was formed. The First World War was very difficult for Latvians. My uncle had made it as far as Chita as a rifleman. With his characteristic humour, he once said: we did not go any further, because we were not intended to conquer China. The Latvian riflemen were a force – disciplined, brave, but above all, through all the horrors of war, they carried Latvianness and hope. The hope to return to Latvia. And the hope that Latvia would be free.

That must be known! Latvia did not arise in a vacuum or by itself. There were the Latvian riflemen, there were volunteers – women and men, young and old, the whole nation. They proved that Latvians are a mighty force when they are united. When we sing our anthem and believe in what we are singing. In such a moment, we are invincible. That is why it is so important to maintain a sense of unity. There was devastation and despair back then too, yet the fathers of the nation were able to unite people for a common idea.

But now, without a war, the nation is being torn apart and pitted against itself: “vaxxers” against “anti-vaxxers”, drivers against cyclists, police against citizens, doctors against patients, teachers against parents, drivers against passengers. Everyone against everyone. Those who founded Latvia would be bewildered: what is going on?

Of course, the 1920s were also unimaginably difficult, yet the Latvians endured. And what about Finland? Seventy thousand fallen in the Civil War alone!

The Finns had Mannerheim – my ideal statesman! A Swedish aristocrat of German origin, who spoke fluent Swedish, Russian, French, and German, slightly worse English, and Finnish with a strong accent. Yet he became one of the key figures in the process of Finland founding an independent state and later defending its independence. One of the few politicians to dare to challenge the Soviet Union, to unite and mobilise a peaceful nation for the struggle, and to emerge from three wars at least partially as a victor. The only opponent Stalin allegedly respected. The only ally Hitler did not dare to contradict. A statesman who repeatedly decided the fate of Finland.

Yes! Mannerheim founded and protected Finland. And during the Winter War, he withstood terrible pressure, instead of saying: stay where you are! I have spoken with a man who was drafted into the Latvian army in 1940. He confirmed: we were ready to fight – all as one! Better to die for the motherland than to see it bleed to death in slavery.

It was terrible. But now the same thing is happening. Constant running ahead of Brussels’ cart or clinging to the back of it. Brussels only makes recommendations, but our own people already proclaim those recommendations as law. Absurd. And now the border is open to illegal migrants, among whom are both carriers of contagion and, possibly, terrorists. Yet the leftists keep chanting that migrants' human rights must be respected!

They value the rights of illegal migrants higher than the rights of Latvian citizens to safety and health. Forgetting that a state which cannot defend its borders disappears from the world map.

That is the point! And a state is an invaluable treasure – not every nation has its own national state. That is why it is so important to be the masters of our own land, rather than obsequious vassals to globalists.

Speaking of smart management: the changing winds of the global timber market, currency wars, the sometimes absurd demands of environmental organisations – what are the main problems that Latvia's forest owners need to solve right now? And how is it possible to balance the sector's three main pillars – economic, ecological, and social?

Timber is a very significant resource for the state, and a renewable one at that, which meets all the requirements of the Green Deal. However, here we have to encounter a peculiarity.

The environment is very important, because this is our land and our state! What owner would want to destroy their own holding? No normal forester would drive a harvester over a valuable stand or a corner of nature that needs preserving. We, just like the foresters of Finland, try with all our strength and conviction to balance these three equally important aspects.

But the problem, as you correctly said, lies both in the changing market winds, where we have to keep our sail trimmed because we must not fall behind, and in the fact that recently, the demands of green extremists have begun to dominate more and more, which are not always based on scientific estimates. In recent years, a huge amount of these “green” documents has proliferated: the EU Biodiversity Strategy, the Green Deal, the Taxonomy Regulation, the Climate Law, “Fit for 55”, which demands even greater climate neutrality. It reminds me of my youth in the Soviet Union, when some invented slogan was thrown out, a plan was adjusted for it, and then entries were falsified so the plan could be implemented with a surplus impossible in reality. Because there are limits set by nature itself. But bureaucrats and activists seem to simply not understand that.

One ministry or another, when listing professions particularly important to the state, mentions IT specialists, while planning a downgrade for agriculture and forestry. Is this so that there will be no professionals left who are capable of assessing the situation?

Because we must focus on forestry and agriculture in order to use our state's resources as cleverly and rationally as possible!

In the new EU forest strategy, which will soon be approved, the most dangerous thing is that incomparable things are being compared. For example, we chip shrubs and wood residues and make pellets out of them. We have producers who are third in the world, exporting companies that bring large tax payments to the state. But in the new strategy, there appears an instruction that only industrial wood residues should be processed, and that living biomass as such must no longer be touched at all. This shows the incompetence of the strategy's authors. How does the development occur? The timber harvest is collected, but the regrowth remains! We are perfectly capable of balancing what is friendly to nature with what is significant to the economy!

Any state earns and becomes richer if it develops productive and exporting companies. The state's wealth vessel is filled by exports and emptied by imports. There are no other methods for growth. But for how many years has it been written in Latvia's National Development Plan: too little export, the planned level has not been reached!

Exactly! Furthermore, the comparison with the Congo is completely misplaced! Here, we grow shrubs that are processed into pellets, and this process must not be compared with how palm oil is obtained. When oil is extracted from a palm, nothing will grow or regenerate there afterwards. The exploiter will just push on further. But with us, both shrubs and forests always regenerate!

Yes, crazy things are happening in the tropical zone, that is sadly a fact. In Africa and South America, as well as the Asian tropical zone, the land really is being depleted. But we have a completely different situation. Perhaps the officials and green extremists just need to study a little bit?

So that it is not like that girl with the placard: “Stop killing butterflies to get butter!”

(Laughs.) That really is the absurdity of it. There is no understanding, but there is a great desire to protest. But now there are also some scientists who believe that humans are parasites. That forests should not be harvested, land should not be cultivated, that nature should be preserved, so we should eat sand.

How exactly is it – are Latvian forests aging?

Latvian forests are constantly being renewed, every year we plant tens of millions of new trees, and we use commercial forests in accordance with sustainability requirements. But most importantly – there are also old forests in Latvia's territory, we do have reserves and extensive restricted areas, the sizes of which are increasing. And we have a constant increase in forests.

Forests are measured in cubic metres; we have a surplus of approximately 3 million cubic metres. Every year! And the number of trees growing in them is even known: we have 6.84 billion trees. The count is carried out by national forest monitoring. We have “Silava”, the Latvian forestry science centre, where internationally renowned scientists work, and they work well.

And we must also thank the Baltic Germans, who once introduced German forestry traditions in Latvia, teaching how to act economically. At the beginning of the 20th century, forest areas in Latvia occupied only 23 per cent of the territory because of intensive agriculture. And the population in 1914 was 2.6 million. Many of them lived in the countryside.

Now it is the other way around. And here, thinking logically, something does not add up: the population has decreased, the polluting industry is not large, the forest area has increased to 52 per cent, but according to Brussels officials, we have too high CO2 emissions. Unfortunately, the left-wing ideologues maliciously manipulate these things too. Now our scientists have to refute these accusations. It is important to understand that Latvia has organic soils. That is our peculiarity. In Spain or France, it sounds exotic; they hardly have any organic soils at all. But we do. And organic soils, by definition, emit CO2. This means that in Latvia, it would be correct to cut more and plant more, because young trees absorb CO2 intensively, while old trees are no longer able to do so. The Finns always emphasise this: look at how the forest grows here!

Old trees lose the ability to absorb carbon dioxide, becoming deadwood. We have 65 million cubic metres of deadwood, and that has also been counted.

In terms of the proportion of deadwood, we are in third place in Europe – on average, we have about 23 cubic metres per hectare. And here is the contradiction. If Latvia has 65 million cubic metres of deadwood, which is necessary for maintaining biodiversity, but CO2 is being released into the air, then how can we maintain the balance? Only by harvesting the forest and planting new ones! We need growing forests to balance the situation.

Besides, carbon dioxide is important for life on Earth! Photosynthesis is a blessing! Because its byproduct is oxygen.

Exactly! But the question is: how many people understand that?

That is why we need a portal, to explain these things in a language that everyone can understand. Because in the public space, there is either the jargon of Brussels officials or references to specially selected scientists.

There is a new slogan now: trust science! But trusting science is not the same as trusting any scientist. Not every scientist represents science; there are also those who represent interests and ideology.

Unfortunately. Even among scientists, there are those for whom funding is more important than conscience. Some serve their funders. Others join in without delving deeper. And an opinion has already been created.

What is the difference between forest harvesting and deforestation?

Deforesting a forest means irreversibly changing the land use type. You cut down the trees, pull out the stumps, and put a tin box on top – some supermarket or stadium. Yes, in the Congo and Brazil, they are deforesting. In Brazil, they use the excuse that they need arable land. And that is another thing. In India, Indochina, Africa, and also Latin America, there is huge population growth, and they all want to eat. It is projected that in the coming years, there could be a movement of migrants from Africa towards North America and Europe – a total of about seven hundred million people.

Instead of building their own country's economy and prosperity, these people are being encouraged to go to the USA, Canada, and Europe, where they can live in social housing and receive benefits. President Biden has already opened the southern border. Welcome! And that is exactly why Hungary's border is closed to illegal migrants. Meanwhile, on the UN website, one can read that they plan to eliminate hunger and inequality by 2030.

In what way?

That they do not reveal. Like the communists back in the day.

Yes, yes! Khrushchev once announced that there would be communism in 1980. Some are still waiting for it now.

Returning to the forest: what purpose does forest certification serve? Is the Forest Law and the European Timber Regulation not enough?

A very good question! The most significant are the certificates of two international systems: FSC and PEFC. There is also SBP, but that applies to pellet producers. Both PEFC and FSC are world-recognised certificates. The leaders of these organisations do not argue with each other about who is greener, but set common goals and cooperate.

Latvijas valsts meži is certified in both systems. These certificates are presented to those who buy the finished product. No longer logs, because we strive to sell a processed product so that the wood has added value. Look at the wonderful things our wood industry leader “Latvijas finieris” produces! And we have many other processing companies that offer a wide range of products – starting with garden furniture and ending with timber needed for liquefied gas tankers.

An unexpected discovery! Mostly one has to hear that forests in Latvia are being brutally cut down and sold cheaply for pulpwood…

That is the same absurdity as the claim that they beat Russians here. You go to Siberia, and someone in Krasnoyarsk suddenly asks you: is it really that bad over there?

It is hard to imagine that those who spread such lies believe them themselves. Although, who knows. A person sees one clearing and starts wailing, because they cannot tell a clear-cut from a regeneration cut. In Latvia, there are only 30 thousand hectares of clear-cutting per year. Out of 3 million hectares. In a clear-cut, you cut down all the trees.

But then, within three years, you must either plant other trees or ensure the clearing regenerates naturally.

We plant a lot. We have very good planting material both from private nurseries and from the nurseries of Latvijas valsts meži, which export 15 million seedlings to Sweden annually. The Swedes recognise our seedlings as excellent. We have something to be proud of.

But certification, in short, is the voluntary commitment of forest owners to observe good management practices by balancing these three factors – economic, social, and ecological.

True, in international meetings where representatives of African and Asian countries also participate, the environment is pushed a little into the background; there, the main focus is the social aspect. But in Europe, it is different. I have tried to debate with leaders of radical green organisations: produce a socio-economic calculation for your policies! They snap back: we don't have to do that! Then I ask: but who will pay the taxes?

They smirk: that's not our problem, deal with it all yourself! – So, unfortunately, these are ambitions based on ideology, not genuine concern for one's own land and state.

The mapping of EU protected habitats has finished. I raised the alarm about it as early as 2017. Back then, I was mocked, but now the Ministry of Environmental Protection and Regional Development announces that many tens of thousands of hectares will be encumbered with restrictions. However, the issue of compensation has not been resolved, even though working groups have dragged on and on.

The latest idea: let's impose a higher tax on forest owners so that compensation can be paid to them from it afterwards. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Instead of asking Europe, where von der Leyen is constantly boasting about her 20 billion earmarked for climate protection. The money is there; it just isn't for us.

A person buys property, and suddenly it turns out that they cannot do anything with this property. Every line, every easement road is drawn in the Land Registry, but not a word about the encumbrance.

The owner suddenly finds out that the land they bought is a habitat?

Yes! Because some expert has allowed for the possibility that a black stork might nest there. A concrete example: in the autumn of 2019, we searched for such a black stork nest, but did not find it. Yet the owner is not allowed to use twenty-two of the fifty hectares. And the compensation for that – 1000 euros per year. But he had planned to renovate his house with the funds obtained from timber harvesting. He had already calculated how many years it would take. But now, no way. And the expert, who does not have the status of a state official, is not responsible for anything.

Even now, officials don't take responsibility for anything.

That is true. Currently, there are almost three thousand micro-reserves in Latvia. That is our peculiarity. And the number of restrictions is constantly growing. True, more in state forests than in private ones, but a restriction in any case is a trauma for the owner, because the master can no longer dispose of their property freely. But what if a person gets sick or wants to educate their child? Go to the bank, where they will strip you bare?

Restrictions must exist, but there must also be a logical balance. The Finns have a different situation – they have very good compensations. Nevertheless, a Finnish Member of the European Parliament recently said: Europe does not understand what Finnish forestry is and how the Finnish economy is structured. The same applies to Latvia and Estonia. Only the Swedes understand us. In Brussels, forests do not grow outside the window.

That is why I like the stance of Poland and Hungary. There, the government defends the interests of its people. Now the Finns and Swedes have also pulled themselves together. But ours just prattle on, invent projects, and waste money on events that provide no return. That is a kind of local political business.

Let's talk about the positive. You are preparing to release the almanac of the zemeunvalsts.lv portal. What will it be, and why do you need it?

I have been reading books since I was five. And I really want others to read texts not only from a screen. Our portal is three years old, so I have decided to publish an almanac that will contain the most significant publications from the portal – interviews and articles, which we will group into three sections: People. Land. State.

Our foundation is the land. But a human is a vertical being, so it is important not only to stand firmly on the ground, but also to keep one's eyes and heart on the heavens. Without verticality, without a spiritual dimension, a human becomes a savage.
Photos used by Anda Krauze, Pixabay and zemeunvalsts.lv