An interview with Lauris Arājs, Deputy Chief of the State Police Central Public Order Police Department

In the community of foresters and hunters, hunting is also viewed as a tradition. Recent discussions about the next generation of followers – 16-year-olds – were quite heated. Was the concern justified?

The anxiety was caused by the authors of the proposal themselves. Sensitive issues that can give rise to justified or unjustified confusion cannot be addressed at the last minute by submitting proposals to the Saeima shortly before the third reading of the legislation. Moreover, by submitting a completely new legislative provision that has not been discussed by the public beforehand. If the legislative changes had been handled at a reasonable pace – discussed with us, the State Police, while providing for a normal procedure for introducing changes and preparing the public for them – everything would have happened differently! I admit that many members of the public would not object. Of course, there will always be someone who objects to this or any other law, but there are people who object to everything. I do not support this method of changing the law, which the authors of the proposal chose!

Regarding the age threshold – 16 years – I have already spoken about this at the Ministry of Agriculture. In my opinion, this proposal is worth supporting, but the idea needs to be processed, “digested” (in other words – understood accurately), and presented correctly. In the Saeima committee, I shared my experience. Specifically, I know the daughter of a Latvian hunter who lives in Germany and has passed the necessary hunting exams. She told me how wonderful it is to go hunting with her dad, mentioning a series of conditions that must be strictly followed. As I understand it, the girl is interested in hunting; she often went with her father, and from the age of 16, she was able to take the shotgun into her own hands. When I listened, the story moved me! Continuing traditions is a good and commendable thing. Can hunting be considered the worst hobby that appears in the teenage years? If you can engage a young person with nature, whether it is mushroom picking or hunting, it is far better than hanging around in the bushes, drinking beer or something stronger, or using something else entirely...

As soon as the topic of weapons appears in discussions, someone will surely want to mention some tragic event abroad with different laws, traditions, and a system, and a very different society. Have we seen any serious problems with the use of weapons in the last ten years? I mean the so-called legal use.

For the most part, our strict regulations have produced good results, which may be stricter than in the so-called “old” Europe, but successful. The use and handling of weapons is not the most critical area where accidents happen here. I agree that no one is safe. Such cases do happen, but they are an extreme exception! If we look at the figures – how many weapon owners we have and how many accidents... Compared to vehicles and their drivers – accidents occur regularly and “an insane amount”! Accidents with weapons – far, far fewer! I believe that over time, the once truly crazy drinking during hunts has been eradicated by at least 90%! What happened ten or more years ago, when I started supervising this area at the State Police, was crazy. At one duck hunt, I saw what was happening: many people, alcohol, weapons, shooting... Maybe five seconds away from an accident! I said: let’s change our habits and break this custom! The habit is “broken”. During hunts, hunters are checked, and only rarely does someone intoxicated turn up now... Speaking to hunters at seminars, I know that many hunting clubs have purchased high-quality breathalysers and check participants themselves before hunting. If you have been drinking or arrived “straight from the table” – goodbye! So that there are no problems for others or yourself! Cooperation has yielded results – safety in hunting!

Can it be said that cooperation with hunting collectives is successful?

It is twofold! Hunting collectives are also different. There are collectives that have fewer hunting permits; they might want to “sin” and will avoid contact with us. The majority of clubs are rated positively; they care about having something to hunt in the long term and follow safety requirements until the “unofficial part”. We receive the majority of information from them if something has happened: “Look, help us, we have problems!” There are problems with one of the collective members who should be caught, there are problems with illegal hunters who have taken over a particular territory. Cooperation exists, but not with everyone!

What is meant by the word “sin”?

If we look at the Hunting Law and how poaching is described there... The question is – how is it possible to catch this “hunter”? For example? If someone wants to shoot a beaver with night vision optics, that will be the most direct and genuine illegal hunting (poaching)! The same applies to hunting other animals where night vision devices are not permitted.

The next thing that worries me and can lead to accidents is thermal imaging devices. Such devices are prohibited in Latvia. The volumes in which they are sold do not lead us to think or hope that the people who have purchased these devices regularly travel only to the USA or other countries where such hunting is permitted in semi-enclosed, restricted areas. Those are territories where no person should appear. In our – Latvian – conditions, to hunt like this... God forbid a mushroom picker, hiker, or runner has got lost in the forest... Thermal imaging devices are not to be used; sooner or later, problems can arise!

Next – the number of hunting permits. One moose, ten hunters – who will be the lucky one...

Furthermore, there is the internal order that the hunting collectives themselves have determined regarding payments. You want a licence for a wild boar – give, let’s say, 30 euros. If you shoot a tiny pig, it is a pity to waste those 30 euros. That is how they try to “stretch” the permit. Once again I say – the question remains – how much are we able to catch, and how interested will the hunting collective be in the solution to report that something is not right.

What about commercial hunting?

The party hosting foreign commercial hunters (the collective) is responsible for compliance with all requirements and regulations. I see nothing terrible in commercial hunting; there are violations, but nothing dramatic has been observed – usually stress or stupidity. For example, hunters are driving, we decide to check. What is found? Loaded weapons are being transported in the vehicle, a cartridge is in the barrel... We ask the foreigner: “Is this allowed where you come from? No, it isn't! If it isn’t allowed there, what is different here?”

Commercial hunting is a good way to obtain additional funds for hunting infrastructure. I have seen collectives where funds have been used to build stands, and driven hunts are carried out by shooting only from a stand. Here I see what I myself once tried to promote in the working group for the new version of the Hunting Law – shooting with rifles should only be done from a stand at least 1.5 m high. In principle, that would rule out any possible accidents.

The isolated accidents in hunting that have occurred have all been shots from the ground: either the bullet went astray or the hunter did not observe the angle of fire.

Therefore, I would like to say – if funds are obtained from commercial hunting that can be invested in organising a safe hunting environment, that is the best benefit!

About weapons. What is the situation? There is little talk about the significant number of illegal weapons in Latvia... So?

Illegal weapons exist, have existed, and will exist! The question would be different – when the owner or concealer pulls that (weapon) or those from under the eaves! We hope that will not happen! Weapons are hidden; some people are actively working with them, others have them at home but they are not registered – cases vary. From time to time, older weapons that have been made functional again “appear” here and there. The Criminal Police are working actively and, upon receiving even the slightest information, they check! As long as a weapon “sleeps” and no family member or neighbour knows it is hidden, it is unlikely that anyone will find out that “it is there”. It happens that in some lonely rural homestead, which has been empty for a long time, the new owners find a hidden shotgun or something similar... It happens from time to time! The owner never told anyone that “there is a piece tucked away just in case”. Let it lie there! The person has passed away, the wife or children know nothing, the house is sold, and the new owners find it while tidying up. That is just one example.

There are also people who are trying to “operate” with illegal weapons in some circuit. Something has remained from Soviet times, something from earlier ones. It happened that we seized a shotgun painted with green floor paint (including the barrel), and it was immediately clear: “A legal weapon cannot be like that.” The hunter’s legal weapons were seized for drinking, but he did not intend to quit hunting. So, he took this green shotgun from the attic!

In recent years, there has been much discussion about animal numbers – does the number of licences correspond to the number that should be hunted? The animals have become too numerous. Moreover, problems arise not only for farmers but also on the roads...

We in the police have nothing to do with this issue! Our task is to check whether a permit has been issued for the culling of an animal.

Regarding animals on the roads... What is happening on our roads is an answer to categorical deniers of hunting! Any insurer will say that the number of accidents where cars collide with wild animals is increasing! At present, people buy more KASKO (comprehensive insurance), whereas previously this happened less for various reasons, and therefore fewer accidents were reported accordingly.

Animals on streets and roads are a reality! Of course, this is not just a hunting issue! We cannot currently afford the necessary infrastructure! We will not regulate the fact that no animal will run onto the road through hunting alone!

By infrastructure, do you mean fences, crossings, tunnels?

Of course! Let us look nearby – at the neighbouring countries! There are more and more fences along roads in Lithuania; in Poland, practically all newly built roads have fences and crossings for animals. It is only logical to separate nature and human infrastructure so that both are fine and they do not cross! I would advise hunting deniers to reread and reflect on Imants Ziedonis’s “The Green Fairy Tale”. The forest entered the city... Sounds good! If leaves blossom on your wooden door and you cannot open them... Exaggerated, of course, but everything must be balanced, and the regulation of animal numbers is absolutely necessary!

The well-known story about wild boars in Riga (when we did not yet have African swine fever). They wandered in Jugla and Šmerlis. Beautiful? But people would be truly at risk if a mother pig and a group of piglets came into the yard to “eat the phloxes”, and someone tried to chase them away. Hunters understand what a wild boar and its tusks are! God forbid a child or a stupid dog gets in the pigs' way... They will become aggressive and attack!

A similar story is about foxes. They feel quite comfortable in the city. Do we need to live with nature so much and in this way? That is certainly a delicate question. But if we look at what happens to abandoned or left-behind houses after five years! Everything grows over, and after ten years you won't even get close if it’s not maintained! The same thing happens with animals! If we ban hunting, will we be happy about it in ten years?

What about poachers who are not and have not previously been hunters?

Those exist as well. I will not say that their number has increased. I will emphasize again – the stronger and more united a hunting collective is in a particular area, the more it finds both us and the State Forest Service and informs us. We travelled around Latvia, talked about our work in seminars, and invited them to cooperate! We also get calls: here is a problem, need help... We catch one, the second, the third...

I would divide poachers into two groups. Some are “swamp men with long beards” – “I came out of my forest house and did something”. Those also need to be caught because they do not have the right to hunt like that! The second group tries to earn money or build some business from their activity. These people do not see a deer standing on the side of the road – instead, they see, let’s say, 500 euros! If they processed the deer and sold the product, they would get this amount. We also started catching these types; there is no information that their activities are continuing significantly. If they are detained repeatedly for such activity, the person starts to understand that there is control. He must look for other occupations, not plan to risk and be caught again! A separate group are members of hunting collectives. Unfortunately! I will say: it happens that a poacher has never been caught, has never “gotten dirty”, and joins as a hunter. He will not always be a bad hunter! People change! Of course, it happens that while being hunters, they continue their habits, but...

Do you also supervise fishing?

Yes, indeed! If a person is caught once – it seems like nothing to them! They will work the court-ordered hours, pay a fine. The second time – the same. Catching them a third time – that’s it! The person has found work; they have a so-called deferred payment, which they will pay for the next twenty years for the damage caused to fish resources. That is also the goal of the punishment; if you see that they are no longer going fishing, have started working, and are paying back the damages caused to the state, we have achieved what is necessary.

Is there any statistic or hunch about which fish are of “most interest”?

Of course, salmon have not disappeared anywhere and will not disappear! Autumn, spawning time, and temptation... It used to be very profitable to work in this trade! At one time, I knew them all (the illegal salmon catchers)! The only thing was whether, at the moment we met, one could prove anything, or if they pretended to be smarter. We started working intensively and changed the situation very, very much! The largest amount of damages I have experienced – on the Lielupe River regarding vimba bream – was about 300,000 euros. It was caused by one fisherman! The fine sums are substantial, and poachers just think they are uncatchable!

Right there on the Lielupe, during another raid, we found nets four and a half kilometres long! Why does no one notice? The majority of illegal activities happen at night. Also in Lake Babīte, which is well known, the discovery was kilometres of nets. We also carried out serious work in Kuldīga, where poaching had long been occurring in an organised manner.

People are also becoming smarter; following health or proper eating trends, they want to eat a “normal fish” that has grown in a natural environment and has not been fed who knows what. If demand increases, supply increases – that is how it should be! Illegal supply has decreased significantly over time. Ten years ago, we could say – it’s a disaster! Today, the situation is normal.

How did we achieve that? We started looking at the market – we decided: “Let’s hit the sales.” If fish are caught in large volumes, they must be realised somehow. We had joint raids at the market. When we “unwound the whole chain” – from the river or lake to the seller – after a while you look: there are almost no illegal fish at the market! The hardest part is catching them if they are selling “hand to hand”! Often, local drunks near a nearby shop will try to sell a pike in a bucket – that is not a large volume! We were interested in the large volumes of illegal fishing; work to eradicate them yielded results!

The biggest thanks should go to the honest hunters, fishermen, and, it must be emphasised, to the anglers, who seem to care the most and in the long term about the high-quality potential of their activities. It is probably impossible to completely eradicate the scourge of illegal hunting and fishing, but we must strive for it! Therefore, I invite you to report illegal activities to the Illegal Hunting and Fishing Combating Unit of the State Police Central Public Order Police Department by calling 29483667 or writing to: nmzag@vp.gov.lv